Using the Whole Whale - A Nonprofit Podcast

Marijuana Win For Social Justice (news)

Weekly Nonprofit News summaries.

 

In Win For Criminal Justice Advocates, Biden Pardons Marijuana Charges & Orders Evaluation of Cannabis Scheduling

The Biden Administration announced last week a series of pardons for those charged on federal, simple marijuana possession charges, in a win for criminal justice reform advocates. The legacy of the Nixon Administration’s “War On Drugs” is still felt throughout the United States, where black and brown Americans are more likely to be charged for marijuana use than white Americans, despite similar rates of usage. NPR quotes Patrice Willoughby, vice president of policy and legislative affairs at the NAACP, who says that “The failed policies on drug criminalization have ensnared many on nonviolent, marijuana offenses.” Biden has also “instructed the attorney general and Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra to start the process of reviewing marijuana’s status under federal law, according to Politico. Advocacy groups continue to highlight the need for reforms at the state level.

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Summary

 

• U.N. refugee boss warns of 'severe cuts' without immediate new funding
  U.S. Reuters
• What Happens When a Company (Like Patagonia) Transfers Ownership to a Nonprofit? | HBR.org Daily 
• Black Lives Matter tops list of groups that Black Americans see as helping them most in recent years | Pew Research Center
• Nonprofit Helps Salem Family With Wheelchair Makeover Fit for Halloween | NECN

 

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What is the CURE for medical debt? | RIPMedicalDebt.org

On this episode Allison Sesso, the CEO & President of RIP Medical Debt talks about their unique approach to alleviating medical debt of Americans. By leveraging medical debt markets and partnering with hospitals, RIP Medical Debt is able to achieve 100X leverage on every dollar donated to wipe out debt at scale.

 

How big is the problem?

The SIPP survey suggests people in the United States owe at least $195 billion in medical debt. Approximately 16 million people (6% of adults) in the U.S. owe over $1,000 in medical debt and 3 million people (1% of adults) owe medical debt of more than $10,000.

 

 

RIP Medical Debt by the numbers:

• $7,091,262,274 in medical debt relieved so far
• 3,987,191 individuals and families helped
• 2021 Annual Report

 

The debt relief we provide reduces mental and financial distress for millions of people. Here’s how we got started.

 

RIP Medical Debt was founded in 2014 by two former debt collections executives. Over the course of decades in the debt-buying industry they met with thousands of Americans saddled with unpaid and un-payable medical debt and realized they were uniquely qualified to help those in need.

They imagined a new way to relieve medical debt: by using donations to buy large bundles of debt that is erased with no tax consequences to donors or recipients.

From this idea RIP Medical Debt was born, a New York based 501(C)(3). The results have been spectacular—billions in medical debt eradicated so far, providing financial relief for millions of individuals and families.

 

About Allison Sesso

President / CEO

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Allison Sesso became the President / CEO of RIP Medical Debt in January of 2020. RIP Medical Debt was established for the sole purpose of reducing the medical debt burdens of low-income individuals with limited capacity to pay their medical bills by leveraging donations from people across the country. They have abolished $7,091,262,274 to date for over 3,987,191 people.

Under Allison’s leadership and in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, RIP Medical Debt launched the “Helping COVID Heroes Fund” focused on relieving the medical debts of healthcare workers and emergency responders like nurses, home health aids, pharmacists, social workers, hospital technicians, the National Guard and others working on the front lines of the pandemic. It also benefits service workers and others facing financial hardship resulting from the COVID induced economic downturn. Through this effort RIP has abolished over $100 million in medical debt.

Prior to joining RIP Medical Debt, Allison served as the Executive Director of the Human Services Council of New York (HSC), an association of 170 nonprofits delivering 90% of human services in New York City.

Under her leadership HSC pioneered the development of nationally recognized tools designed to illuminate risks associated with government contracts, including an RFP rater and government agency grading system. She led negotiations with New York City and State government on behalf of the sector and successfully pushed for over $500 million in investments to address the nonprofit fiscal crisis.

During her tenure at HSC, Allison also led a commission of experts focused on socialdeterminants of health and value-based-payment structures and published the report,Integrating Health and Human Services: a Blueprint for Partnership and Action, that examines the challenges of operationalizing relationships between health and human services providers, offering several recommendations. She also served on the New York State Department of Health’s Social Determinants and Community Based Organizations (CBO) Subcommittee helping to formulate recommendations around the integration of CBOs into Medicaid managed care.

Allison’s work on behalf of the human services sector led City & State to recognize her as a top nonprofit leader in 2018 and 2019, one of the 25 most influential leaders in Manhattan in 2017, and one of New York City’s 100 “Most Responsible” in 2016. She recently received the 100 “Most Responsible” award for the second time for her efforts at RIP Medical Debt.

Allison also serves as the Vice Chair of the nonprofit “Right to Be,” formerly Hollaback!, a global movement working to end harassment through bystander intervention training and storytelling. 

 

Rough Transcript

 

[00:00:00] George Weiner: This week we have an awesome guest who I, I think I promised I would track down somebody from R IP medical Debt because they kept showing up in the news and innovative approach to dealing with, uh, a tremendous. Problem in America around, uh, I'd say healthcare and debt, and none other than Allison Seso, the CEO and President is joining us.

[00:00:52] This means a lot. Thank you, Allison, for, for taking the time today.

[00:00:55] Allison Sesso: Thanks for hunting us down and finding us. We love talking about our work and, and the issue of, of medical debt, so I appreciate every opportu. . Well,

[00:01:05] George Weiner: let's drive right into it on the front page of r i p medical debt.org. On the front page of the.org site, I see every $100 donated relieves 10,000 in medical debt.

[00:01:19] First off. That gets my attention. What a perfect way to start a conversation. But how does that work exactly?

[00:01:29] Allison Sesso: Yeah. We are a, uh, a unique model and we take advantage of the for profit, uh, debt market, uh, and use it for a mission driven purpose, which is really exciting and, and I think unique. So we do get an incredible return on investment and it's because there is a market for debt buying, uh, that is, has been established, and That is because, uh, there is a for profit industry that we take advantage of, uh, and they are looking to make money off of the issue of debt. We, on the other hand, are trying to relieve debt, so we take donations from individuals, we take 'em to the debt market, and we buy large portfolios at.

[00:02:10] So, the individuals that are in those portfolios tend to be financially burdened. They are poor, they are, um, in fact, to qualify for our program, you have to be 400% of poverty or below, or the debt birth burden has to be significant compared to your overall income. So it has to be 5% or more of your income.

[00:02:28] We do an analysis of the debt portfolio and we buy all of the accounts that qualify and then we purchase them based on. For profit rates. And so we're competitive with that market, but because the for profit folks are trying to make money, they have to really depress the prices and they have to have a really deep discount in order to make sure that they're making their money back.

[00:02:49] And so we don't have to make our money back. And so we're able to take, you know, $1 and turn it into a hundred dollars of medical debt relief. And as you pointed out, you can ex expand that. So, you know, $500 gets rid of 50. Um, $50,000 of medical debt. And so that's how we're able to, provide massive debt relief to the tune of $7 billion to date and grow.

[00:03:12] George Weiner: Yeah, I think there's a lot to unpack there. Maybe I, um, wanna poke a little bit more into like, making sure I actually get this. So let's say I'm, you know, a family living below the, the poverty line meeting your, your standards. There's an, uh, unexpected accident and injury. I then am in the hospital for a few days and suddenly I'm walking around with 45 grand in debt overnight.

[00:03:34] And because of the way our systems work, this is now. A debt I owe to creditors. Now that debt, as I understand, can first go from the hospital to maybe a secondary buyer, right? There's like all these markets of like, Oh, I'll grab that one, I'll grab that one. And then it seems like they're, there's a discount on it cuz it's not dollar for dollar you're getting.

[00:03:56] A hundred x leverage on it. So there's some discounting of my debt with that 45,000. Can you just walk me through like the individual, like I am sitting here, I've got 45 grand in debt. I can run off to a sort of like Go fund me type site and be like, Please, please, please, please pay this money. I have a story.

[00:04:19] I have a narrative. And unfortunately I have to compete with other stories around me. What is the alternative path that my 45 K debt takes in your world?

[00:04:29] Allison Sesso: Yeah, so your, I could buy your debt probably for $45. That's the diff . That's, that's the difference. It's pretty, you know, I'm sorry, I don't understand.

[00:04:39] I'm sorry For $450. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Um, Um, Um, so yeah, I could buy your debt for $450 and that is because I'm not just buying your. I am buying the entire provider's portfolio of bad debt, so it's more attractive of an option. So basically I'm, I'm a hospital or another healthcare provider. I am serving people who can't afford to pay.

[00:05:02] They are poor as you just described. And, and by the way, just to be clear, it's 400% of poverty or below, so it's not just under poverty, but four times the amount of poverty. So it's people that are poor but but not necessarily. Oh, so

[00:05:16] George Weiner: four x the whatever, $45,000 Exactly. Anywhere you are. Okay. So

[00:05:21] Allison Sesso: that, that matter.

[00:05:22] So we're really like helping people that. Really trying to make ends meet but aren't actually, uh, technically in poverty based on the federal definition. So you, you know, you, there's, there's, you have to, In order for our model to work, we're buying the entire portfolio of many of those individuals who have the 45,000 or a thousand dollars or $2,000 of debt.

[00:05:43] Uh, that all together. So it's source driven. So basically I'm going to the hospital or other healthcare provider and I'm saying, Give me the debts. Give me your entire portfolio of debt that you have tried to collect and you have been unable to collect and mostly been able, unable to collect because the individuals are, uh, financially stressed out and can't.

[00:06:03] Afford to pay this bill. I will look at that portfolio and I will assess what can I pay for that? And this is if I'm a for-profit, not F R P medical debt, but as a for-profit debt buyer, I will say, Okay, I'm gonna pay this. I'm gonna pay you an X amount of dollars for the entire portfolio for thousands of people's bads.

[00:06:23] On the bet that at least I can squeeze enough out of that. Mm-hmm. , you get to make up for the investment that I've made plus, Right. Cuz I'm looking for a profit and I squeeze those individuals either by calling them, by putting it on their credit, you know, and giving them bad credit by sometimes suing them and taking, putting leans out on their.

[00:06:43] Um, on their cars, on their vehicles. So I take different tactic to try and collect on that. And so that establishes this debt market that establishes a price that is very depressed and discounted. And again, that's what r i p medical debt takes advantage of. So I'm competing with that already depressed price that is driven by the fact that people are trying to make a profit off of these bad debts.

[00:07:05] But in my world, I've sort of flipped it on its head and I'm. I will pay the same as the for profits, but I'm not trying to make a profit. I'm just trying to provide relief. So I'm going to take donated dollars, so I don't need to make any money back. I'm gonna go to that same debt market. I'm gonna say, give me all of the bad debts that you have available.

[00:07:25] I'm gonna pull out the ones that are for, which is most of them, like 80% oftentimes of people who are financially uh, struggling. And I will pay. this amount, and I pay based on, usually the debt is, um, the older it is, the cheaper it is because

[00:07:42] George Weiner: the idea is it pays outstanding, puts a higher discount on the probability

[00:07:46] Allison Sesso: that gets behind.

[00:07:46] I'm, I'm paying like, you know, a million dollars for, you know, $300 million worth of debt in one fail swoop. And so it's thousands of people that are getting helped.

[00:07:58] George Weiner: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So staying with the story here, I have incurred this 45,000. I have not been able to pay it back in thirty, ninety, a hundred eighty days.

[00:08:09] I am within that window of one to four x the poverty level. And do you like show up at my door? Like an oversized check. Is it like, uh, so like how am I notified that? Like, hey, you're suddenly like, you don't owe this anymore. Like, how does this final, like I release you of your burden before, Like what, Like is there a confetti?

[00:08:34] I'm like, that would be a lot of, uh, groundwork for us because we've helped over 4 million people. So that'd be a lot. Lot

[00:08:40] George Weiner: of confetti. And then we got the environmental problem on that. A lot of conf the

[00:08:43] Allison Sesso: confetti ideas. Yeah, exactly. It would be a lot, lot of champagne, you know, it would be a lot. no, we, what we do, first of all, The debts tend to be at least a year old because the hospital does it is required like by regulation, they have to try to collect that could be sending one letter, it could be sending two letters.

[00:08:59] It depends. And so every hospital is different. And the thing is, when you've seen one hospital and their approach to collections, you've seen one hospital and their approach to collections. So there is no like, well what's the standard? There's some norms, but there's really differences. Like for example, not while hospitals sell their debt roughly and.

[00:09:17] Like, I'm not even a hundred percent sure, like, but it's roughly like 30% of hospitals that sell their debt. So not even all hospitals sell their, their debt to begin with. but we do get hospitals to sell to us that don't normally sell to other for profit debt buyers, which is, I think, important. But So you are that individual.

[00:09:34] We would not have access to your file and your debt and when, until a hospital engages with us and agrees to work with us. So that's an important element of our model, is that hospitals have to be interested in working with us and say yes to dis debt relief. Once we get a hospital involved, we will get their entire bad debt portfolio.

[00:09:53] So you, if your debt of that 40, uh, what did you say? $45,000? Mm-hmm. , then we. , uh, send letters in mass like we do to every other individual that's in that thousands at one time that basically say, We are our IP medical debt. We have relieved your debt. You are free and clear. Check us out. We're for real.

[00:10:14] Like, believe us. and

[00:10:16] George Weiner: oh yeah, but there's a lot of, Sure right Where, where's the timeshare agreement?

[00:10:21] Allison Sesso: Right. And you don't have to do anything. And the other thing that's really important is there's no tax burden associated with it. When, when certain debts are relieved, there can be a tax burden because it's considered a gift equal to the amount of the debt that's been released.

[00:10:33] Right, exactly. So could you imagine you get a debt relieved and then you get a tax bill. It's like when you win a lotto and you have to pay taxes. You're like, what? ? The good news is soured. but with r p medical debt, that is not the case because we are disinterested third party. So you get this debt relief free and clear.

[00:10:48] And honestly, the, the debt relief happens whether or not you actually pay attention to the letter. They really can

[00:10:53] George Weiner: just continue to do what you were doing, which was ignore the problem and hope it goes away. Which I have to say, never were, I can't use the word never, because apparently sometimes that works.

[00:11:04] Allison Sesso: Well, I mean, look, the people who were, we are helping though, at the end of the. everyone. I mean, we get the stories back from individuals. Mm. They want so desperately to pay. They really do. And they feel like failures because they haven't been able to pay. Mm-hmm. . So these aren't people who are just like, Whoa, let's hope for the best.

[00:11:25] I'll just keep ignoring this. And you know, these are individuals. Something happened to them. Either they got sick, they were in an accident, whatever happened to them. Maybe they just are poor, like, and, and have other obligations they have to pay for and they can't pay this bill. And so we are relieving those debts of individuals who were forced to pay a bill that they should have never been forced to pay because it's unaffordable.

[00:11:51] George Weiner: Yeah. Cuz clearly they had that desire to pay it back, but not the means by which to do it. What's more, medical prices are not exactly accurate in the United States.

[00:12:03] Allison Sesso: I don't know if the word is accurate. They are all over the place because we have this weird system where the insurance company is paying and the prices are ar.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:18] George Weiner: Yeah. Uh, when you operate as an individual in a system designed for these large players that are charging what they will, it just breaks, it seems like, and you're just left with outrageous numbers, and debt burns.

[00:12:32] Allison Sesso: I think that we've created a, a. Typical consumer approach to healthcare and it doesn't work like the economics don't align when you're buying healthcare, first of all, you would pay a lot more than you would for any other good or service, right?

[00:12:49] Because it's your health and your wellbeing. So like your artificially willing to to pay more. And I think we take a little bit of advantage of that in some ways. And, and I think that the fact that we have insurance companies that are negotiating what to pay is. Makes it complicated and it's really hard to navigate this as an individual, nor I think should we have that expectation that people, while they're sick, should be navigating what they're gonna pay for a service that they have Really no real way of doing comparison shopping on.

[00:13:24] George Weiner: this is very different than a lot of other models that I see. And you must, and I see it on the site saying, if you were an individual looking for medical debt relief, that is not us. And that must be hard because you were. You know, behind the curtain that's behind the curtain running in debt markets, which frankly, you know, this may be the first time many people are hearing about this.

[00:13:51] I'm curious how, how did this organization come about? It's been around for, for a while.

[00:13:59] Allison Sesso: Well, I mean, actually we've only been around since 2014, so it's not that old considering, I mean, a lot of nonprofits. Just years old. You know, we, we were . We've only been around since 2014 and we, we came we came into being, because we have two, uh, former debt buyers who understood the market.

[00:14:17] I think that was a key element of it. Craig and Jerry understood, uh, how the debt market works and what it costs to buy. , they were inspired by Occupy Wall Street, actually. Uh, and they saw that there was this group doing this thing called the Jubilee, where they were trying to do just what r i p does in, in large scale, which is to buy medical debt, and relieve it, but to make a point.

[00:14:42] And they recruited actually Jerry's help in this. And then Jerry referred Craig. Then they sort of made their point as part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, and they were gonna pack up and go home kind of on, on this whole debt relief front. And I think Jerry sort of said to Craig like, We gotta make this a real thing.

[00:15:01] And so they did. They, they really, they, and I think that they have a book that, that they put out talking about this. You can find it on our. , it's called End Medical Debt, and it tells sort of the origin story of of R I P and and and how they thought about this and one of the key moments that really helped the organization propel forward.

[00:15:20] Was being highlighted on John Oliver, which, you know, I'm a big fan of, I was before I got this role and knew about r i p medical debt, but he really, did some debt relief through the institution and, uh, and that propelled a lot of donors to come to the table. Cuz without donors, this really doesn't work.

[00:15:38] I mean, I can go to the debt market all I want, but if I don't have a lot of people supporting my ability to buy the debt, it, it doesn't, it doesn't work. So, That's our story. It was two Defiers who were brave. They took some. They almost went into poverty on, on, on their own because of the fact that they, they took this, uh, this on and they just thought this was too good of an idea to let go.

[00:16:00] And again, John Oliver helped propel us and then the board of directors, you know, said, Let's take it to the next level. And, and then I came in as a, as a seasoned executive director type and, and we were able to really, uh, propel this work forward and we're gonna keep doing. .

[00:16:16] George Weiner: Yeah. I mean, 24, I mean, you've made it through some, some filter bubbles for sure.

[00:16:22] In terms of like the filtering of can you make it five years, can you make it over a, a certain amount of revenue, but you're starting to, uh, really pull. Pull through. It also strikes me because medical debt is the number one reason someone declares bankruptcy and it seems like this is, uh, something that may slow that down.

[00:16:45] Uh, but I don't know how big you need to be, like billions of dollars that you have done. 4 million people. I think you said like those are big numbers. How big do you actually need to be in your mind to, I'm not gonna use the word solve, because you, you are not solving, you are resolving a broken system that will continue to break things.

[00:17:08] But how big do you need to. To take this actually on at the level that you'd imagine?

[00:17:13] Allison Sesso: Yeah, I, it's a good question and it's one I often think about as an executive director, or sorry, as a, as a CEO of the institution, it's one I often think about. What I would say is that, , we need to both be a certain size and relieving a certain amount of debt every year.

[00:17:32] And I don't know what exactly what that number is. It really depends on the donation size. Maybe it's 10 million, maybe it's 20 million. I like the number 25, in terms of our budget size every year, uh, I'd love to grow to that size and, and you know, we're, we're more than halfway there already today, in consistent revenue, but, you know, we'll,

[00:17:51] But the other thing is, I, I loved how you framed it and said, We're not solving but, but resolving this, the issue. And that's a hundred percent true. And that is our mantra. What I wanna make sure is that we're not just trying to grow to a size that picks up and just keeps resolving the issue, but at, in the process of resolving the issue for individual.

[00:18:12] We are very intentional about telling the larger story about the issue of medical debt and how systemic in nature it is, and that we are very intentional about pushing for larger changes that are above our pay grade as an institution. And so to me that is really the key. So our size almost doesn't matter as much as our.

[00:18:36] And so by growing our voice within this work and growing our expertise and taking the data that we are getting in mass, so we are having a deeper understanding. How many people, uh, we, how many people we're helping, what their situation is, what is their race? What is their economic situation? Where do they live?

[00:18:56] Is this, is this problem more prevalent at certain types of hospitals, nonprofit versus for profit? I think over time we'll be able to take a deeper look at our data collectively as we do more and more direct hospital work and contribute to this issue in a larger scale. And be able to hopefully push for, uh, larger solutions that are above again, our pay grade and who we.

[00:19:22] George Weiner: So the debt, we were talking about this before, the debt that a individual incurs, going back to like, here's a, my $45,000 and surprise debt that I now owe. I have a family, uh, we live, you know, in a house we're doing right. But this is something that frankly does not fit into the budget, not even by a long shot.

[00:19:42] Uh, I may. Go into bankruptcy, but it seems like there is a like actual adverse medical effect to having debt. There's like a relationship to having this like held over my head that has negative consequences. We think we were talking about the drama report or other reports out there that suggest that like, I mean, it's just.

[00:20:09] It hurts my brain to put it in the order of logic that like I went to the hospital to get better and now I'm probably gonna get worse because of the overpriced and debt that now chases me indefinitely. And can you tell me a bit about that relationship of debt distress?

[00:20:23] Allison Sesso: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, it is the number one theme that we see in the letters that come back from individual.

[00:20:29] We help, uh, it's overwhelming for individuals and, you know, stress is. Undermining of health and financial stress. Stress is one of the biggest things, and we look at poor communities and we see. You know, diabetes, we see all these stress related diseases, heart issues that are all stress related, that are more extreme.

[00:20:54] Uh, and so in, in terms of medical debt, it is in itself a social determinant of health. And the social determinant of health is something that hospitals have increasingly been looking at and are spending. Millions, billion dollars, billions of dollars across the country trying to invest in community programs that address social determinants of health.

[00:21:16] And yet, as this Gemma report that came out just recently shows the medical debt created from going to the hospital itself is a social determinate of health. So if, if we can really look at medical debt, , we can actually get rid of one of the stressors that's causing people to have to go to the hospital or get care to in the first place.

[00:21:38] So I think it's a really key issue that you're raising and one that we wanna make sure that we keep elevating. Cuz again, these providers, these hospitals are investing lots and lots of money into social determinants of health. Those are things like environmental situations family dynamic. You know, lot things that are in the environment, not your own personal health.

[00:21:57] You know, living in a food desert. All those kinds of things contribute to the undermining of health. And it's a, it determines how well you're going to be healthy, hence, hence the social determinate of health language. And so the fact that medical debt itself is among those is something we need to really look at.

[00:22:14] And I'm so grateful that there is this new report that points to this because I think it will create, To reexamine billing and practices at.

[00:22:26] George Weiner: and I think this is the Jam and Network, uh, that that put this out. But we'll put a link in the, the show notes on it cuz there's a certainly a lot in there and it's one of those things I'm glad somebody did the research on and I am now forced to think about it, but also, I'm sadly not surprised.

[00:22:44] I'm not surprised that having, uh, you know, the, the threat of somebody putting a lean on the house that, you know, my kid lives in, like wouldn't cause me stress. Like I go, I went in cuz I broke my ankle, right? I went in cuz I broke my, and I walk out like two years later with diabetes and other stress related disorders that put me back on that bill.

[00:23:05] Like,

[00:23:06] Allison Sesso: well not only that but the other on top of that, the. Stressor is that people don't go to that hospital because they're scared. They're either gonna incur more debt cuz they have had some, or they know of a friend or family member that's had debt and that it's put them in a, you know, difficult situation and so they don't go and get the care that they need.

[00:23:24] People are sitting outside of hospitals waiting to see if the pain dissipates before they walk in. or they're just ignoring it and, you know, putting, you know, Ben Gay on their knee over and over and over again, and taking Advil and trying to ignore the problem until it gets to a point where it's actually even more expensive to solve and to adjust.

[00:23:46] George Weiner: Yeah, I mean, the, the size of the problem, it, you know, it's, what I like is that this is a pretty smart and leveraged play at an intractable problem, like the, the scale that you need to play at. And I'll just play, I'll, I'm show my own hand. I don't think it's solved by GoFundMe. No. Truly just it is, and you also even brought up the tax issue that I'm pretty sure if I got my 45 grand from people giving me money, and it showed up as a check to me, I now owe at least a third of that I think in taxes, depending on where I

[00:24:19] Allison Sesso: am.

[00:24:21] Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how the GoFundMe works in terms of the tax system, but it's definitely a popularity contest. How. That's the problem because what I mean for GoFundMe to work you, you need to tell your story effectively enough to have people give to you over others. GoFundMe is, The number one thing people go to, like they go to GoFund me for medical debt.

[00:24:47] It's the number one reason to go to GoFund me. And most of them do not work. They do not reach, reach their goals. And certainly you're not gonna reach your goal if you have an ongoing medical issue. Like what? If you have, uh, a chronic condition, you can't keep going back to the well and begging your friends and family.

[00:25:02] Not to mention the fact that a lot of people are able to. Money if they have friends with money and people with money tend to have other friends with money. People without money tend to have friends without money. So the, the, the GoFundMe is absolutely not a solution and it really is a popularity contest.

[00:25:18] It's how well you're able to tell your sob story. and I just think that's a freely heartbreaking situation that we're putting people in to have to put themselves out there in that way in order to solve their medical death. .

[00:25:33] George Weiner: Yeah. The, you know, frankly, it's, it's not really the, the individual's supposed to do everything they can in their power.

[00:25:39] and so if you're back into the wall, I understand the market force is there pushing there, but there's only one winner in that. It's the person that takes 2% of transaction. if you were looking at a macro system, something like r i p, medical debt, uh, I'm wondering if, you know, just to sort of speculate on it, are there other areas where you feel.

[00:25:58] George Weiner: Financial levers, debt markets even are unexplored avenues for this type of impact.

[00:26:08] Allison Sesso: I mean, I think that there's probably other kinds of unaffordable debt that could be looked at for sure. The thing is, medical debt is unique, and I do think that people are potentially more willing to donate to, uh, medical debt causes because you have such little control over the situation.

[00:26:27] You, you can be insured. Most people actually are insured. 90% of Americans are insured today. yet 41% have medical debt. So it is not a matter of having insurance. So you can do everything right. You can have, I. , you can still and are likely actually to get medical debt. In fact, the, the number one cause of medical debt isn't, is, or, or directional relationship is not whether or not you have insurance, but whether or not you get sick, like, so you're, that's, that's the number one connector, which is that means you couldn't be insured.

[00:27:02] So I. At the end of the day, we can't look at things like GoFundMe for the solutions here. I think you're right that it is, uh, just creating more profit on top of a, a profitable system. Yeah, we, we have to, we have to look at at bigger solutions beyond beyond this, and I think that, that our model could be used for other areas.

[00:27:25] but I think that people are more likely to give to medical debt because of the fact that there's so much little control over how much debt you end up in. People are less forgiving if you end up overusing your credit card or, Yeah, even if you can't pay a utility bill. Honestly. Yeah.

[00:27:40] George Weiner: Yeah, the story obviously, obviously matters, but also, you know, I'd say your ability to, as you came back to it, say like you're able to go through and understand the data behind the actual communities that you're choosing to go for, and just to track back on the conversation.

[00:27:56] You're like in your. Ideal world, you're like, I think we have about 25 million worth of work you wish you could do every year in this.

[00:28:05] Allison Sesso: Yeah, I think 25 million feels right today. Now, I don't know. I mean, ask me, you know, in, in a year from now how, how we feel about that. But I think 25 million gives us a pretty steady pace.

[00:28:16] Of doing debt relief, in mass, right, For individuals while also investing in our own ability to tell the story of medical debt. Cuz that's important, right? Like not every dollar do we only spend on medical debt. We spend a lot, almost every dollar on medical debt relief. But we also are intentional about investing in storytelling so that individuals can be heard and that we're, we are thinking about what is, what it feels.

[00:28:43] To have medical debt. And what are the implications on your mental health? What are your struggles with the hospital finance system? What is it like for your family every single day when you have this thing looming over your head? How have you avoided care? What other trade offs and decisions have you made?

[00:29:00] Have you borrowed from friends and family? All those kinds of things. So we are investing in different systems, but I think 25 million. Feels good as an annual like rate of our budget size because I think that gives us a large scale ability to relieve debt across the country for a lot of people again, and, and lifting up the stories at the same time.

[00:29:26] Yeah.

[00:29:27] George Weiner: Yeah. Well, just, I mean, I won't call out your nine 90, but it, it is all public and so you're, you're hoping to grow there, it seems.

[00:29:36] Allison Sesso: Yes. We're hoping to grow there. That's right. I mean, we've had, we've been, uh, lucky to get a 50 million gift from McKenzie Scott, uh, which is Jeff Bezos's ex-wife, and she's been wonderful in the nonprofit sector and able to.

[00:29:51] push organizations forward. But that's a one time gift, right? Yeah. We're able to do those in multiple years, but we have to be careful about you not expanding our staff to have an expectation that that's gonna be our permanent bottom line. So we pay lot of attention to that reality, and so that's propelled us forward in a lot of good ways and allowed us to invest in even ways in which we can donate and become more, you know, In which we can maximize our ability to fundraise and then also look at our own systems, become more efficient so that we don't need as much staff.

[00:30:26] Uh, so we've done those two things with those funds, but we need to grow to, I think, a, a permanent, like 25 million size where it's year after year we're able to support that.

[00:30:38] George Weiner: And that makes sense. Part of my mind, I keep going back to this $45,000 family that just ran into this just stroke of unlock and, you know, following through the pattern.

[00:30:50] Like it, it is amazing that there is R ip, medical debt that may show up like in some ways, like a lottery ticket that you're like, I didn't know I was playing this one, but I won. And like frankly, I've lost enough. That's amazing. I wonder if there's a world where the probability that I'd have to pay my full debt could be made more publicly known to me.

[00:31:12] And I know there's also nonprofit hospitals that technically if they're serving the public benefit actually are. Uh, due to absolve some of that debt as well. But I feel as though you're not told the full truth when you're handed that bill for your, you know, scan your PT scan and you're like the what?

[00:31:29] And your overnight visit. There's no like, and by the way, you know the probability if you're in this area and you make this much, that if you just wait, frankly one year and don't pay this, like nothing battle happen because the converse is true. We've been taught to pay every bill that shows up to us.

[00:31:44] Cuz that's how you are an honest participant in. , uh, economic society, What does that look like? ?

[00:31:52] Allison Sesso: Yeah. So it's, that's a difficult question to answer because I don't think we're in enough hospitals yet, by any stretch, to, for anyone to feel confident or comfortable to just, you're just gonna

[00:32:02] George Weiner: run around and catch that fly ball.

[00:32:04] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:04] Allison Sesso: Right. And also, we're still investing in our fundraising abilities. And I don't know, at some point maybe people are exhausted about paying for this too. And our issue. Not as exciting. You know, we, we are competing, frankly for donate donor dollars with things like Ukraine or abortion rights or gun rights, you know, so there are, there is a limitation to how much I can guarantee that I'm gonna be able to relieve people's debt.

[00:32:28] And also remember that in order for me to relieve your debt, you have to be financially burdened, right? So you have to be 400% of poverty or below, or the debt has to be large compared to your. So I would be leery of people feeling comfortable with the idea that eventually not

[00:32:45] George Weiner: pay. By the way, this is not financial advice.

[00:32:48] I repeat, this is a nonprofit podcast. This is not financial

[00:32:51] Allison Sesso: advice. Right. And, and, and I will say, frankly, you know, there is some concern on the hospital and provider side that, that if they work with us, that that. That that will happen, right? That if that people will bush think, Well, I don't have to pay my bill.

[00:33:04] So I don't think that that's a good way. Wow.

[00:33:05] George Weiner: I didn't even think of that, but

[00:33:07] Allison Sesso: Right. That, that's, that's a good way of

[00:33:10] George Weiner: not you have thought about this as the ceo. Yeah,

[00:33:13] Allison Sesso: exactly. And it's not something I would say we've experienced. What we've experienced is people who can pay their bills do pay their bills.

[00:33:22] There's people in the middle Right. That also pay their bills, but to a, a large. where it's a a difficult situation for them to pay the bills. I would like to address those people as well, like they sign up for a payment plan that they can't afford. What I would advise people, is to not sign up for payment plans that they can't afford.

[00:33:43] If it's $700 a month and that's gonna create a real financial burden on you and your family, then do not sign up for it despite all of the pressure that you might feel from the debt collector, if it's an individual, individual entity or if it's the hospital themselves. So that's what I would advise.

[00:34:00] Unfortunately, as much as I hate having to tell people. be their own advocates. This system is set up that it expects you to be an advocate for yourself, and so you have to advocate for yourself and make sure that you don't sign up for things that you can't afford.

[00:34:19] George Weiner: Uh, what a mess. It just, what a mess. In my mind, I'm just saying like, Well, what if I just waited, like I had my $45,000 debt and I just waited out of like, I'm gonna buy this back on a penny on the dollar in a year. I'm gonna come back to you as an independent broker, and I'm just go buy back.

[00:34:36] Allison Sesso: Yeah, but you aren't, you can't do that.

[00:34:38] Right. You know, you're not gonna have the negotiated power that I can collectively, and you can't come to r i p and. Well look, I got this one debt. It's 45,000. I'm in

[00:34:46] George Weiner: Texas. Hear me out. I mean, you can, I will donate this much over here for the help my angle get better fund, right? Exactly. Doesn't, doesn't work.

[00:35:01] No,

[00:35:01] Allison Sesso: it doesn't. It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. But I do. But I will say this, when we work with hospitals and increasingly so, Our vision is for when we work with hospitals that they take a look at their financial assistance policies and try, because you're right hospitals, especially non-profit hospitals.

[00:35:20] Mm-hmm. are supposed to give out charity care. They're supposed to focus on low income individual. Remember that

[00:35:25] George Weiner: C3 classification in the old taxis?

[00:35:27] Allison Sesso: Yes, exactly. But the thing is that, Hospitals don't really get that classification taken away. Like that's not, that's not a thing that really happens that frequently.

[00:35:38] Yeah, I, and I, and I don't, I don't mean to imply at all that hospitals don't take that seriously. I think they take it very seriously there. They're nonprofit status, and again, not all hospitals are alike. There are some bad actors and there are some that are genuinely struggling right now. Hospitals are not really in a great financial place.

[00:35:56] Compared to some of the patients, they're probably better off. It depends, you know, on the situation. But hospitals are supposed to provide charity care, bottom line, and so they are not necessarily as generous as our program. So there's people in between, like some of them could be 200% of poverty or there's discounts provided at 300% of poverty, not the full, you know, getting it all relieved like r I p.

[00:36:21] So we do hope though, that by doing an analysis of their bad debt file people, that means people that did not get charity care, whose debt we are buying, that we're able to give them information that helps them reflect on their own charity care policies and approaches, like letting people actually know about the charity care, making sure the application process is not to burdensome.

[00:36:45] We encourage hospitals to do what's called presumptive eligibility, meaning that they just take a look on their own by buying data from, from TransUnion like we do, or any other, you know, Equifax, whatever. Buying the data, looking at people's incomes and making assumptions about whether or not they deserve or, you know, can get.

[00:37:02] Charity care based on their income, and then they just give it without, just like we do. We just give it away. We let people know that they've gotten this free kick, this debt relief without them having to fill out any paperwork or anything like that. .

[00:37:17] George Weiner: So that's so interesting. I didn't realize You're not looking at pii, personally identifiable information to the degree where you see maybe a name and an address.

[00:37:24] You're getting like top line stats on somebody Or could you do like, do the search for, you know, George, we in Texas who's got 45 K in debt and you're like, Ah, I found

[00:37:34] Allison Sesso: you, you're there. No. Well, when we get a, when we get a file, so we are HIPAA compliant, right? So we, we have a DAA with the hospital and, and we, you know, we do keep , uh, we're very vigilant about our, our cyber security and all of that other stuff.

[00:37:47] But, and we, we have to be able to have the information of the individual or else we wouldn't be able to let them know about the fact that we've relieved their debt. Right. Right. You do know it. Right. So we do have that information, but, When we analyze a file from a hospital, we're doing it in the aggregate.

[00:38:03] We're not focusing on the individual at all, that we're completely ignoring the individual's name and all of that stuff. All we're focusing on is those elements that qualify them, and so we take the entire part that qualifies, and that's what we hold onto, and then we send out the letters after we've bought that debt, et cetera, etc.

[00:38:24] George Weiner: Gotcha. I love, still, in my mind I'm thinking like, but there's technically a way I could go through and be like, if my name comes up, let's just say I'd be, uh, encouraged to make a donation. You'd never do it, but would it open up a second? Don't get my debt for me.

[00:38:42] Allison Sesso: Let you know. We'd never, ever let you, We would not, we don't give away the names of the individuals that we.

[00:38:49] if people want to tell their stories, they are encouraged to do so, and we let them do that and they can put their stories on their web, on our website, and they can talk to our anthropologist, but we would never tell a donor you helped X, Y, Z. Ever.

[00:39:01] George Weiner: Oh, that's fair. I was saying in reverse like the, the person who's like in distress, like, could I go search a database to be like, Oh, I'm in this distressed category of people, but you can't open up it up because of hipaa.

[00:39:11] Yeah.

[00:39:12] Allison Sesso: Well, you need to find out if we already relieved your debt. If it's already gone, we, we would've notified you.

[00:39:20] George Weiner: Oh, thank you for humoring me. I'm such a, such a rabbit hole runner. That's even a thing. All right, we're gonna move to rapid fire. okay. With your permission, Please keep your responses as short as you feel like they, eh, feel like.

[00:39:34] Okay. What is one tech tool or website that you or your organization has started using in the last year?

[00:39:40] Allison Sesso: Max Q D, which is a qualitative data analysis visualization tool. Cool.

[00:39:49] George Weiner: What are some tech issues you're currently battling with?

[00:39:53] Allison Sesso: Well, we are making sure that our cyber security is so to compliant, so we're really focused on that and we're super excited about that.

[00:40:01] And we also are trying to send people emails in addition to hard copy letters, and so we're working to incorporate that into our model. ,

[00:40:10] George Weiner: what is coming in the next year that has you the most excited?

[00:40:15] Allison Sesso: The ability to enhance how we analyze our data, specifically with a focus on.

[00:40:24] George Weiner: Talk about a mistake that you made in or maybe earlier in your career that shapes the way you do things today.

[00:40:33] Allison Sesso: Creating space for everyone who's a stakeholder, be it on the board, on your team, uh, donor to make their voice heard and to be part of decision making. By not doing that, I think you really undermine everyone's buyin to what you're doing and the direction you're headed.

[00:40:52] And that was a mistake I made in my career that I have overcorrected for, probably .

[00:40:59] George Weiner: Do you believe nonprofits can successfully go out of business?

[00:41:04] Allison Sesso: I sure hope so. I really do. I think that nonprofits are generally not set up to solve problems, but resolve them in your. And I hope that nonprofits can have a greater voice in getting systemic change so that they can help solve problems at a larger scale.

[00:41:24] George Weiner: If I were to put you in the hot tub time machine, back to the beginning of your work at r I p Medical debt, what advice would you give your dryer self yourself

[00:41:34] Allison Sesso: to focus on the progress over the. So that I could feel more excited about the work that I'm doing going forward and less

[00:41:43] George Weiner: stressed. Uh, if I were to give you a magic wand to wave across the industry you work in, what would it do?

[00:41:52] And you can't say, just clean up every single bit of debt

[00:41:57] Allison Sesso: across the industry. Uh, I would, I, I would say, and when I say the industry, I'm talking about the nonprofit industry at large, I would say improve the marketing of the industry. I think that we. A, a skewed view as if we are the secondary industry that's sort of just doing what everyone calls God's work, which I hate.

[00:42:16] I think that we are doing an essential, fundamental, fundamental function for society and that it takes real skill that not everybody has, and not everyone can from a business can just jump in and do, and take over and do well. And I think that I would do a better job of marketing who we are and how important we are as an, as an industry in terms of non.

[00:42:38] George Weiner: What is something you think you should stop doing?

[00:42:43] Allison Sesso: Uh, sometimes I think we put our heads down too much and do the day to day work, you know, going in and outta of meetings, taking, checking off our to-do list and I think we need to stop doing that as much and put our, pick our heads up and look at the big picture and appreciate what we've accomplished.

[00:42:59] George Weiner: How did you get your start in the social impact sector?

[00:43:04] Allison Sesso: I don't have a good answer for that. I feel like it's a calling for me. As lame and cheesy as that sounds, I've always, uh, felt like I needed to work in a mission driven, uh, capacity. And so here I am. ,

[00:43:19] George Weiner: what advice would you give college grads looking to enter the sector?

[00:43:24] make sure that you have a strong ethical and moral compass and that you have people to talk to to ensure you stay with that because money and donors even can really influence you in a way that's not

[00:43:37] George Weiner: always. What advice did your parents give you that you either followed or did not? Heed

[00:43:47] Allison Sesso: Finding balance in my life, both in terms of work happiness and personal happiness.

[00:43:56] To be

[00:43:56] George Weiner: clear, you heated that advice. I

[00:44:00] Allison Sesso: did. Yes. I'm very happy in both my work life and my, My question

[00:44:03] audio1239347413: could

[00:44:03] George Weiner: have gone the other way there. Life, right? could have been a real dark turn. Yeah. Uh, that's wonderful. Uh, how do people find you? How do people help you?

[00:44:14] Allison Sesso: Well, first donate to us please. Uh, r i p medical debt.org.

[00:44:19] I can't do this work without that. You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram. Just add our ip medical debt. but I really encourage you to, uh, to take a look at our website, check us out and, and talk about the issue of medical debt, uh, how it impacts you. I think one of the biggest problems with this issue is that people feel like they've personally failed when the reality is the system is broken.

[00:44:41] And you have to remember that. And unless we talk about it in our personal stories, this issue's gonna be with us and it's gonna be killing us slowly, literal.

[00:44:51] George Weiner: I'm grateful for the work that you are doing. Thank you. Thank you for, uh, just, uh, continuing to, to make this a national issue and an Avenue, Avenue to finally put dollars to work, I think, in a high leverage way.

[00:45:03] Thank you. Thank you.

Should Nonprofits Takeover ESG & Hurricane Ian (news)

Discussions of Corporate ESG Ratings Should Be Monitored By Nonprofit Industry

More and more, discussions about the efficacy, morality, and financial benefit of ESG-rated publicly-traded companies on the stock market are becoming commonplace. At nonprofitnewsfeed.com, we think that nonprofits need to be equipped with the context needed to engage both prospective donors and the public at large with what ESG is and is not. ESG, a catchall term for “Environmental, Social & Governance” is marketed to be a way to group, define, and measure companies by their broader (hopefully positive) impact on the world. However, as this op-ed from The New York Times makes clear, ESG (and ESG-related financial products like indexes or funds) are at best unproven in their effectiveness, at worst, a marketing ploy designed to obfuscate the harm done by the very companies on the list. Nonprofits should heed that fact as the general public and high-value donors discern significant investments in a wobbly economy, ESG may well increasingly become part of the conversation as a socially conscious (but financially beneficial) alternative to charitable giving in the minds of wealthy donors and investors, regardless of the efficacy of such an approach.

Read more ➝

 

Summary

• How can I help with Hurricane Ian? Volunteer, donate to Florida
  USA TODAY
• What happened to giving money to charity? | Vox 
• Pennsylvania school district accused of banning Girls Who Code book series | the Guardian
• How Indigenous Peoples’ Day is Supplanting Columbus Day
  Whole Whale
• The 2022 Nonprofit Power 100 | City & State
•  

 

 

Nonprofits Respond To Hurricane In Puerto Rico (news)

Nonprofits Respond To Hurricane In Puerto Rico

Puerto Rico felt the brunt of hurricane Fiona last week, shutting power to the island and devastating everything from homes to agriculture as severe flooding uprooted life yet again in communities. Puerto Rico, still recovering from hurricane Maria which landed back in 2017, again finds itself in need of assistance and as yet a path towards a resilient recovery. Nonprofits like New York-based Your Network Caring Community Advocates have already started collecting supplies to aid in recovery, and on-the-ground organizations like the Hispanic Federation are also accepting donations. While digital attention for providing aid to help in the wake of natural disasters spike to highs in the immediate aftermath of an event, the long-tail recovery efforts often require sustained rebuilding that takes years of reinvestment.

Read more ➝

 

Summary:

• Time to Start Making Hospital Executives Vow to 'Do No Harm' | Esquire 
• Nonprofits pay Texas farmers to not water crops during drought | The Texas Tribune 
• Local nonprofit seeks to reduce America's political divide - News8000.com | WKBT
• Nonprofit organization levels up Concord with 'Donkey Kong' mural | WMUR Manchester 
•  

Pooh & Public Domain Creative Opportunities | MarketingArtfully.com

The copyright on Winnie-the-Pooh by A. A. Milne officially moved into the public domain this year.

What does that actually mean? 

How might nonprofit's use public domain characters like this to help tell their story?

Tara Jacobson is the owner of MarketingArtfully.com with over 20 years experience in the marketing industry. She helps us break down what is possible and comes up with creative ways nonprofit causes might use the IP. 

 

Resource links

A lot of websites were shared on this awesome episode, here are the URLs mentioned.

• Creative Commons
• Trademark/Copyright search TESS
• RedBubble.com
• https://creativemarket.com/ 
• https://morguefile.com/ 
• https://fiverr.com
• Canva.com
• Openai.com
• Public Domain Story List
• MarketingArtfully.com
• https://artsyfartsylife.com/ 

 

About Tara Jacobson

Tara Jacobson is the owner of MarketingArtfully.com with over 20 years experience in the marketing industry which translates into highly successful marketing systems for her “DIY” and entrepreneur clients.

Tara’s strong history in Psychology, Entrepreneurship, and Creativity, combined with her 100 miles per hour, “tell it like it is” personality have earned her the title “The Queen of Marketing Ahhh’s” from her raving fans.

Tara brings a true small and medium sized business perspective to her work. She has talked with over 1,000 small biz owners about their goals, plans and dreams, helping them to grow and make sure that their marketing increases their intended efforts!

 

Rough Transcript

 

[00:00:00] George: We have a very interesting guest who is, I'll just say it very brave because she is coming in because I reached out to her completely cold, like completely cold. I'm sitting there looking up information about creative ways of using public domain characters and works and none other than marketing, artfully.com.

[00:00:50] And then I reached out to the owner and Tara Jacobson was nice enough as the owner of marketing, fully marketing artfully com. She has over 20 years experience in the marketing industry, but is, I would say coming at this as an outsider to the nonprofit and social impact industry in her work with over thousands of small and mid-size businesses and in this world.

[00:01:13] Tara, can you tell us maybe a bit more about your work and what.

[00:01:18] Tara: So I started internet marketing and making websites with like dream Weaver and all of that back in the day. Merge two, I was a realtor for a couple of years. That was interesting. And then I owned a marketing company for years and one of the reasons why I got so interested in.

[00:01:37] More so trademark and copyright and later on, interested in public domain is because it's I believe it's $600. You get fined as a business. If you use somebody's copyrighted or trademarked work and it's $10,000, if you do it for a client. So I was like, I have always bought every picture I've ever owned.

[00:02:04] I've always had. Oh shoot. What it was called, where the domain of where you got your things and yeah. You sourced the information and yeah that to me was super important years ago when I was posting things for people, making social media graphics, things like that.

[00:02:23] And I got really interested in it. So we're gonna talk today. I'm gonna give you a little course in all of the D. Terms that are gonna come up. And then I love that we're gonna brainstorm some ways that nonprofits can use 'em the only nonprofit I've ever been involved in was the Colorado house rabbit society.

[00:02:49] I do have a blog post on my website about how to get volunteers, cuz they were really bad at it. And so I did I did write them a blog post on how to get volunteers, but I haven't worked tons with nonprofits, but I've worked with all kinds of businesses over the years, small businesses and medium size SSEs and small business.

[00:03:13] George: Yeah. And I think that's helpful context too, to say, like what's at stake. Why do I care about this on one end? There's the penalty side, which is frankly, not as much fun as the creative, which we'll get to, but I'll just say from personal experience, we had interns writing content at whole whale.

[00:03:32] Seven years ago, I get this email from it's like a take down notice, but also basically we used like a picture of a squirrel with some nuts that somebody just Google. Just Google the image and the content really wasn't used at all. And we got fined. I will say I, I can't officially say, but it is in the thousands of dollars for a picture, an intern put on our website like a decade ago.

[00:03:57] Like it's very real what you're talking about and very painful. So I think your note, I'll just put an exclamation point on. It's worth checking because the algorithms that people have for quickly searching and scanning websites have improved for scanning for this type of copyrighted work, all righty onto you.

[00:04:17] What, and there's

[00:04:18] Tara: so much available for free or a very little money. I'm gonna explain the difference, how you get super free stuff, and then how you get like really tiny money. And to me, tiny money is under $10. Maybe not under $300, I'm talking tiny money. So we're gonna start off by talking about what trademark is.

[00:04:47] So trademark gets talked about a lot and trademark is just the words. So you, so Nike's swoosh. The picture of it is copyrighted because it's an image, but the word just do it is trademarked and you can't use those kind of terms. What you're talking about with the creative and the marketing, and maybe pictures for blogs and maybe pictures for things to sell or images for things to sell.

[00:05:17] Is called copyright because copyright covers artistic things like pictures poems, books, things like that. And things come out of copyright. I looked it up after 70 years. So things before 1924 are in the public domain right now. And something super exciting came into the public domain this year, which was the original poo bear.

[00:05:46] And

[00:05:47] George: all the characters, right? So everything from the mil books are public domain.

[00:05:53] Tara: Yeah. And there's illustrations of P bear and EOR and the hundred acre words and things like that, that people truly have a heartfelt connection to. So if you're talking about doing something that is going to help a nonprofit, you're not looking for something that's going to.

[00:06:16] Be mercenary or something like that. You want something that people can go back to their childhood and think, oh my gosh, it's poo bear. I love poo. And there's a whole list of and you can put a link on it. I have a whole list on my website of stories that are in the public. So Rapunzel, Rapunzel it down.

[00:06:47] Your hair is in the public domain. So that is something that people can use. Oh, we have to talk about public domain too. But that is a story that people can use. What they can't use is tangled. Tangled is the dignified version of. Yeah, Rapunzel, let down my hair. So what you wanna do is you wanna make sure that anything you're looking to use, there's a database.

[00:07:19] It's the PT, PTO database. It's called test T E S S. If you just search test on. Google, they have a way to search for it. And you put in only look for live ones. So if you look for live and dead ones, then you're gonna get a lot. But we only care about the ones that are live right now. And so you can find out if something is in the public domain is a avail, is copyrighted or not.

[00:07:46] Now public domain is way more just than things that have gone on a copyright or that aren't trademarked. There are things called creative commons where an artist or a writer or people like that will take their items and file them as creative commons. Now you want what's called creative commons. Oh zero zero.

[00:08:12] And that means they hold no They don't have any license on it. Where if it's just like a plain creative comments, a lot of times they'll exclude a commercial license, even though you're a nonprofit, if you're selling something commercially, that would be violating the terms of that license. And you can find all kinds of things doing that search for pictures, for your website, for things like that.

[00:08:38] Now there are places that say they. Creative commons things like morgue file has a lot of pictures on it. It's just one of the places. And, but they don't have a vetting process. They rely on the people, uploading the pictures to do it. So we're gonna talk for just a wee minute about why sometimes it's better to purchase it than not.

[00:09:05] Okay. Even if you're using something that's in the public domain. So we're gonna talk about poo. Because I love him and absolutely but you could go, you could grab a book off the shelf. You could download that you could scan that image. You could fix all of the little problems with a graphic.

[00:09:29] Program like Photoshop and make sure it's in the proper condition to use on a t-shirt or use on postcards or things like that. Or you can go to a place like creative market where somebody has already done that for you. Like an artist has already done all those steps. And you buy it with a commercial license.

[00:09:52] Usually they're about $11, I think, to get like a set of P bear images. Alison Wonderland is in the public domain. So you can use Alison Wonderland. Now they have, somebody has trademarked Allison Wonderland on t-shirts. So you still, even if it's in the public domain, you always wanna go check the trademark database.

[00:10:14] It's not, there's no like blanket, these are all safe and these are not all safe. You always wanna go and check. So does,

[00:10:22] George: so the trademark database, what does that look like? Is that tests or is that a different that's test? Yeah, no

[00:10:27] Tara: that's tests and all you do is you put you put in Alison Wonderland in tests and click live and click search, and then it'll show you what category of things are.

[00:10:42] Ex like you have to exclude. So say it says t-shirt clothing. I can't remember what's all in that category, but you could make greeting cards. Nobody's trademarked that for greeting cards. So that's why you wanna check. So even if you think, oh my gosh, Allison wonderlands gone. It doesn't mean it is.

[00:11:04] If you're not using it on the thing, they've trademarked it for. And I have such a good example that I looked up for you. So the word elf. Is trademark for lighters, photography, backdrop, and amplifiers three different categories. You can't use it for that. But as of right now, if you wanted to use it on a t-shirt you be, it's not just the, you're gonna put a picture of an L on a t-shirt and you're and for nonprofits, you may be able to avoid some of these problems, because you're functionally selling. to your constituents rather than as much trying to sell internationally. Sometimes you may wanna sell internationally, but if you're doing a fundraiser internally and you're not gonna be advertising it online or in a huge way, then you may be able to get away with it.

[00:12:08] If they do send you a cease desist, then you have made commercial money on it though they can claw back that money. So it's worth looking.

[00:12:16] George: Yeah this complicates it a bit more because prior to even you saying that, I just assumed if it's in the public domain, I'm looking at a picture of Winnie the poo.

[00:12:26] Somebody could have trademarked that on a t-shirt. So I'm like, oh, I can spin up my t-shirts with Winnie the poo on it.

[00:12:32] Tara: No, they can't trademark the picture of Winnie the poo they could tra they could, and they can't copyright it because the copyright belongs to AA. So Uhuh, the original artwork is in the public domain.

[00:12:49] What they could do is, and it would take 'em a while to do it, cuz they have to show the first time the trademark, the word was used in the public and then they have to pay money to get it. It's about 12, $1,200 to get the trademark and then they have to go through a whole process where it's vet. So you and they won't go backwards. So if you were to sell a Winnie, the POH says, Winnie the poo, it's the poo bear old P bear you're done. And in two years, somebody trademarks Winnie the poo and you had used it. They don't go backwards. Does that

[00:13:26] George: help at all? You know what it helps with reminding folks that just because it's on that list, you should double check the database, especially if you're going to put marketing power behind it, putting it on products and as you go to use it, but.

[00:13:40] Again, though, is a massive shopping list because there are some edge cases maybe you can't put poo on a lighter, but

[00:13:50] Tara: no, you can't put, you can't put an El on a lighter

[00:13:53] George: I know let's get your, let's get it straight. Elves, not okay. Poo, like we'll just memorize whole thing. Poo's good. He's good to go on a lighter.

[00:14:00] There's that huge the movie's coming out, right? They did a horror movie with Winnie the. Can drop this season because you can do

[00:14:12] Tara: that. You can do that now. And so all of these amazing things that people, and it's not even just, so Walt Disney was brilliant. He took over so many fairy tales.

[00:14:31] Yeah. And stole them for him. There is a real beauty and the beast story that is an old fable from like, When the black plague was around that he then made specific. Now you can do all kinds of things with beauty and the beast. You just can't do the bell in the yellow there iconography, right?

[00:14:58] Yeah. Okay. And then spec. So that's from both the old movie and the new movie, and then you can't do, and then you can, but there's so many things you can do. Like sleeping. Beauty is you can say sleeping beauty. He doesn't own sleeping beauty. He owns Aurora because that wasn't the name of the original sleeping beauty.

[00:15:22] It was. Sister. And so he picked that one. So then you wanna really try, I do know a lot about this. You wanna try to make sure that something isn't copyrighted or trademarked before you use it and just BEC and do not go to Etsy, do not go to anywhere and do a search and think, oh, look, this is all over Etsy.

[00:15:46] It must be okay. That's not how the world works.

[00:15:50] George: Yeah, you're really talking about the original, like name of the character as presented essentially in the trademark language, in the copyright public domain and the images I'm looking through your piece on Allison Wonderland. You may have that image of Allison, a blue dress and the the mad hat, or it is a very different look, frankly, but it's still recognizable as the charact.

[00:16:16] but it doesn't necessarily have that immediate brand recognition that essentially that's a Disney version Disney, it Disney it. But right now, for instance there's two movies about pinoc one on, I think Netflix and one on Disney as a rerelease guess what, that's another story similar to, as you just mentioned beauty and the beast that you

[00:16:35] Tara: can run with.

[00:16:36] Yeah, there are so many things. And oh and they're really mad about this, but I think in the next year it might be next year, Nikki's coming

[00:16:45] George: to town.

[00:16:47] Tara: Old Mickey, like really old Mickey. Oh, G Mickey. Yeah. OG Mickey is coming out of copyright. And so that's, what's fun about it to me. Like I, I make stuff for now I make artwork.

[00:17:03] I'm an artist now. And I make artwork. So I made my own version of the mad hatch actress who does not look like Johnny Depp. It doesn't look like Disney's version. She's a woman in a hat and the original Alison Wonderland had that 10 and 10, six thing in her hat. And so she's very recognizable as Alison Wonderland, as the Matt had her from Allison Wonderland, but she's a feminist version.

[00:17:41] George: So now we get into maybe some of that creative elements, unless there's some more guardrails you wanna toss

[00:17:45] Tara: out for folks. Nope. I think if you've gotten this far and you have all of the warnings

[00:17:51] George: you really made them take their vegetables first, right? Amen. Vegetables and vitamins first. So you can riff on them.

[00:18:00] You can take this original concept and riff on it. Can I just maybe up to a thou 3000. Explain to me what are the advantages of using a character that has this recognition

[00:18:14] Tara: already? Okay. So the reason why there is copyright and trademark is because it would be so much easier to sell a Alison Wonderland.

[00:18:30] Queen of hearts mug. If it looked just like Disney's right, people have already paid money to go to the Disney movie. They've already paid to go to Disney world. Walt Disney has already done the work to make people want to like that. And so it's unfair if you think, oh, I wanna do something with transformers because there's good brand recognition.

[00:18:58] The reason why you wanna do it is because there's good brand recognition right now. The reason we now I wanna I'll give you my Madha example. The reason I wanna do a Madris is I can use all the words except for Alice in wonder. So mad Hatter, isn't trademarked tea party. We are all mad here.

[00:19:23] All of those things are not trademarked, so I can make a mad Hatter shirt with we're all mad here and I can market it in a way that it will be able to get found by a portion of the population that's interested in the Alice Wonderland story. That's why I wanna make a bad hatch actress, because I know that there are people that already resonate with that character, whether it was the Disney character or whether they read Allison Wonderland in their childhood, or whether they saw Johnny DEP any which way they have a feeling towards that character.

[00:20:00] And I can use that to help sell my stuff.

[00:20:04] George: Gotcha. So you're shopping for. These characters in part because of this. And I wanna come back to the value that you are essentially borrowing for free. Think about the amount of attention it took to bring that character to millions of people. How much would that have cost for you to do the same?

[00:20:24] Now you then, because of that attention, as I understand it, there's recognition. Oh, I see that. I grew up with that. I was read that. And then with recognition, you then can play with the affinity, which by the way, can be positive and negative. There are often villains in here as well, but you then can immediately start on page five instead of page one.

[00:20:45] And then it sounds add your flavor of brand message, even advocacy. Does that sound right?

[00:20:53] Tara: Yeah. Exactly. So gimme an idea of one of your nonprofits.

[00:20:58] George: Oh gosh. We have a lot of animal welfare organizations I'd say interested in preserving and saving and protecting lands.

[00:21:07] Tara: Okay. So animal welfare makes me think of the big Wildcat organization when I was in Colorado.

[00:21:14] Which makes me think of the cowardly lion and they could use the cowardly lion, the original Frank bomb, cowardly lion, which is in I'm 95. Yeah. It's in the public domain and do something with the cowardly lion that matches their the way their nonprofit is set up and who it's serving animals, right?

[00:21:43] Yes. And so if the Wildcat sanctuary already knows their people love big cats, and now they're giving them the cowardly lion with that affinity to not the movie, the book. And that character, but you can still use cowardly lion and all that comes with it. And all the heartstrings that come with it, then all of a sudden you have a target market group.

[00:22:10] That's already predisposed to like it and buy it at a higher price because they don't really care. They know the profit's going to. The animal rescue group, they know that this is something that they're gonna love and cherish because it helped their thing, but they also enjoy wearing it. And in wearing it now they're promoting the animal rescue group.

[00:22:32] So there's like this amazing circle of wonderfulness.

[00:22:37] George: Yeah. I thought you were gonna go with Tigger, but you threw me a curve ball. I maybe have gone with You could ERs and saving Tiggers because he is a character inside of winning the poop. Now

[00:22:49] Tara: you there's once you start brains but think about that, you and I went to two totally different things that are both actually big cats that could help an annual animal rescue.

[00:23:02] So say you rescue turtles. You wanna find. Maybe I, and don't take, don't quote me on this, but maybe the wind in the willows is in the public domain, the original book, and there's a fun turtle in there. Or those are the kind of things you wanna try to figure out how you can mono, how you can really use their.

[00:23:24] Brand recognition to make your customers who are your donors, more willing to buy something and not only buy it because that doesn't help as much. If they're not wearing it and helping spread your message.

[00:23:38] George: I wanna pull the thread a bit more because immediately you talk about merchandise. And I imagine if I were to drop you into many sort of after thoughts of we'll call it a Shopify or a Spreadshirt or a very cafe press talking about we put our logo on a shirt, so our.

[00:23:55] Audience can go get it. It's an afterthought. It's not the forefront. Can you explain very quickly, like when you look at the opportunity of petsy or putting imagery on a shirt, is there money there? What does that look like in your

[00:24:08] Tara: world? Okay. So for a nonprofit, specifically, not in my world, because in my world, I'm an artist now, but for a nonprofit number one, I would suggest they use red bubble.

[00:24:21] It is incredibly simple. You do not pay a dime to list any of the products. And as a nonprofit, you make this say, you say, and you don't have the, you don't have anybody on staff with the ability to make what you need. Number one, you can go to creative market right now and they have there's a gal on there that does dark Alice.

[00:24:53] There's all kinds like pink, Alice and dark Alice and you can just buy a graphic. That's already ready to drop on a t-shirt for 12 bucks or 20 bucks. So you've bought the right to use that on a t-shirt and then you can put words on the top words on the bottom, wor you know, the name of your charity on the back.

[00:25:17] And if your people do not have the ability to do that, you can go to a place like fiber, which is F I V E R r.com. And give them the graphics that you wanna use that you've paid for. Don't rely on them to get the graphics because you want to control the fact that you have purchased commercial rights to use this.

[00:25:43] Ask them to make you a t-shirt and they'll make you a t-shirt for 20 bucks.

[00:25:50] George: So the, then the creation of it. So how do you set up a shop? What do you point people to set up your shop for red bubble? And you can set up a custom shop with my nonprofit and I get some graphics that just frankly, go beyond here's our logo.

[00:26:04] We

[00:26:04] Tara: did. Oh, gosh no. You could put your logo graphics on there. You could like that could, and you could even make it cute. Okay. So if I had at least the I, okay. Let's not as cute as the WWF, cuz they have a super cute logo, but say you just have a word logo, right? Yeah. You could take and put a Christmas hat on it for Christmas and then they would have to buy it for Christmas and you could put some Mardi Bo beads hanging on it or put some shamrocks on it.

[00:26:38] For I was gonna say the 4th of July, but for St. Patrick's day. And you could do all kinds of things. If you just wanna tart up your logo and then yes, other people in the world could buy it, but primarily you're gonna be driving the people who already like you. To that place so they can buy things. You can buy stickers, you can buy blankets, you can buy.

[00:27:03] And all you do is you upload your thing once, and then they put it on all that stuff, if you want.

[00:27:09] George: And it's on demand creation and shipping, and it's all handled for you. But I think getting back to our ideation, let me give you another another type of organization, and this is gonna be tough, but you asked for it.

[00:27:20] We've got. Cancer related organizations interested in awareness for let's say lung cancer or colorectal cancer. So what types of I see her smile. You can't see, dude. I'll narrate, she's laughing and smiling. She has an idea. All right. What do you well for the call I'm way, ER, than nonprofits, right?

[00:27:46] Tara: That's okay. So for the colorectal one, I would go with but why didn't you get your test with somebody's butt and not saying B U T, but B UT, but why did but implying that everything's about a butt, right? Colorectal cancer. It's your butt. I like your job.

[00:28:07] That's the kind of thing that you have to get out of your own way and figure out something cute with a marketing hook that is going to to be interesting to people, to buy cards, to buy.

[00:28:27] So what, so if you're

[00:28:28] George: not, I would've gone wizard of Oz with this one, like a behind the curtain, or like a wizard behind the curtain or a. Maybe a 10 man or something like I have no heart. All right. Like maybe I guess in my mind went there.

[00:28:41] Tara: I'm not done with this yet.

[00:28:43] George: Oh, hold on. Keep cooking.

[00:28:45] Tara: So for the lung cancer I would and you can do this on fiber, or you can ask if anybody's an AR is artistic in your group, get longs and have them painted with. Have them painted with some kind of PA cute pattern. So have some artist make lungs look pretty. And then that's going to be something that people already sorry about the rustling.

[00:29:18] People already want to support this, but if there's a beautiful set of lungs and you can put that on something on a card, on a whatever. So if you aren't looking for products, I guess I'm just stuck in the products right now. What were you looking to use public domain stuff. So I can give you better examples

[00:29:42] George: then.

[00:29:42] Yeah. Moving out of the product land. I would say it's the process I'm imagining is shopping through a, Winnie the poo in all the characters, and then saying what type of graphics could we use in our website, art blog posts, social media, mini campaigns that might be around fundraisers and that type of use where it's just it's the ability to have an immediate, as I mentioned before, a combination of recognition and.

[00:30:10] Then telling a nuance of your story,

[00:30:16] Tara: I would still buy the cause. You're when you're buying the P bear thing from creative market. You're buying the set. So the entire set of the P air images. So you've got, say you were to do that and we'll let's talk about the Colorectal one, because if I'm going in, I'm going to the hardest one you have Tigar and I'm so happy that my, my friend P got his colorectal screen.

[00:30:56] He's bouncing on his tail, right? Yep. so this is something,

[00:31:01] George: no, you're right. You can take these characters and have a dialogue. And what does it mean? That happens. It's just it is so much it IBUs it with so much more nuance. Doesn't it? Because then you're not thinking. So colorectal cancer for Mego.

[00:31:16] Tara: I go directly to the gal who was on the today show whose husband died. Jay died. Super cute lady. Can't remember her name right the second. And so there's a lot of bad associations, sad associations to that. And there's not this This feeling of hope that if you help donate to my cause we can.

[00:31:47] Do so many more things than just mourn people. We can help with research. So maybe you have, what's the one that's always the owl, is the smart one. And so the owl says did you know that your donation helps us research cures and things to help with colorectal cancer? Like now you're saying, oh, it's not just this horrifying thing that everybody's gonna die from. It's that you, as an organization. Present a way for people to be hopeful and to want to donate because, and to want to share socially. Yeah. Do you wanna share a picture of a colon? I have seen a picture of a colon and they are not attractive.

[00:32:42] Do you wanna share a picture of a colon or do you wanna share a picture of tiger jumping up and down? With a funny context to it, but here's the game that I'm seeing. You're bringing in characters that have a normal relationship, and then you're adding dialogue. It's a caption contest in some respects of saying, what would this dialogue look like if it were about our cause?

[00:33:03] George: All right, I'm gonna throw you another one, unless there's another point here. No, I like. Okay. The news literacy project, and then generally anybody dealing with misinformation online. And so this particular organization works with educators and journalists to give students the skills they need to discern fact from fiction and know what to trust.

[00:33:23] Tara: Oh my goodness. I would totally use. Was oh, we just watched this. Oh, you can't use it. I can give you a great example. Can't uses. So you charming was the villain and guy was the villain in in frozen. You could do this on social media. You could absolutely do this without getting in trouble. Yeah.

[00:33:55] Prince

[00:33:56] George: times. So just yeah. Who like a quiz who was the villain in social media da, everybody knows fake news sometimes or however you put it, that things aren't always what they seem at first glance. Yeah. And so you're talking about the fact that don't forget when you're reading the news things.

[00:34:21] Tara: Aren't always what at first glance ever news or Scrooge is in the is in the public domain, that Scrooge store. That's why you have, that's why you have SCR and you have all those movies that are made of it, but you could put something about You can't use Scrooge duck, but you can use Scrooge and you could put something about the fact that Scrooge goes bankrupt.

[00:34:52] Loses all his money. and then underneath you could say something like not true. He donated it all to a, to worthy causes after tiny Tim taught him the right way to do it. Make sure to fact check. Yeah,

[00:35:07] George: I. All right here. I'm gonna play one into you. See how you would go with the queen of hearts is public domain.

[00:35:14] Yeah. And notoriously pretty terrible leader. Did you have the little cards as like defenders or like at least the soldiers, right? No. You could have she has queen of heart soldiers. Yeah. Two soldiers, the queen of hearts talking to each other, being like, I'm not sure red. Paint's so great for flowers, but I'm not gonna look it up.

[00:35:35] So painting the roses red, like all of that sort of iconography and you're like check the, so this could be part of an ongoing joke series. Could even be a, could even be a shirt. go, I'll go back to your product. But no, but it could all

[00:35:48] Tara: of that's and I just set up a I've had an Etsy shop, but I just, the reason why I suggest red bubble.

[00:35:54] Is because it is the easiest thing in 20 years, I have ever done online the way they've made the website and the ease of adding. It just has to be a big enough picture, which is why I suggested a fiber person, cuz they're gonna be able to there's terms like it has to be 4,500 pixels by 5,005.

[00:36:17] And nonprofit people are like LA. I can't hear that. but any kind of graphic artist can do that in a heartbeat. That's just not a hard thing. And so if they have an idea that they wanna implement, they could implement it with somebody on five or very easily. Gotcha. All right,

[00:36:37] George: you ready for another one?

[00:36:38] Sure. Let's keep going. All right. This is one move for hunger, but also hunger organizations in general, food banks, collecting food and in general for move for hunger, they're a national nonprofit, and they have a sustainable way to reduce food waste. Mainly when people move, instead of throwing it away, they have moving companies that have been part of their network that get food that last mile to donated to local food banks.

[00:37:01] So anything in the food bank, food insecure. Space. Okay. What

[00:37:07] Tara: would you play there? So I go to the mad Hatter's tea party where they're eating right. Right after this, they called the moving company and they came and, or they called moved for hunger and no food. No teacakes were, was. And that's all imagery you ha can go grab and that's all imagery. It's just there. And people already know it. And they know about the, I if I was doing move for hunger, I would do a whole series of it with like cupcakes, like a really cute cupcake. Maybe even not a Alice Wonderland cupcake, but you can use, drink me.

[00:37:49] You can U I. Always check. You can use drink meat. You can use eat me and then say

[00:37:57] George: no, those little tags that are like so iconic to

[00:37:59] Tara: it. Yeah. So eat me on a little cupcake. Cause you can buy those kind images already made. And once you have your little cupcake, then you can say not a Chrome went to waste.

[00:38:13] Because the food bank showed up or the Mo food movers or move for hunger showed up. And so you're go, like the big part of whatever you're doing is gonna be the cupcake and the eat me. And then especially on social media, then the underneath of it is the message with a link to your donate page or a link to your about page so people can understand what your thing is.

[00:38:39] People want to know how to help, but you have to attract their attention before they know that you're there. I adopted three kids from foster care and so food, poverty is super important to me because my kids came from that situation. But there's no way for me to know. And I work with realtors all the time, cuz of that little two year thing in real estate, I would think that you could contact realtors and have them give everybody who's moving a flyer to put in the homes of the people who are moving.

[00:39:16] And you're literally touching so many more people who are moving, but you have to attract that realtor first.

[00:39:24] George: Yeah. I had the thought of Winnie the POH and honey, I'm done. I'm all in poo, but Winnie the POH and honey, like he's always looking for honey, always hungry and nothing is Sader than a sad poo and an empty honey.

[00:39:35] Tara: Exactly. That's wonderful. I love imagine, right? That is wonderful. There's a whole bunch in SCR. So you, so then at Christmas time, yeah, you do Scrooge and tiny Tim never had enough to eat. This is the. If tiny Tim had been alive now move for hunger. Would've been able to help. So your image is something endearing and heartfelt and that, and then your message is that this is an actual thing that helps people.

[00:40:12] And what you, oh, here's another thing. Oh, this is a big one. Let's talk about demographics, right? Who has the most disposable income right now? And I see a lot of people tr okay let's start. Coherently cuz I just got really excited. So people with money are I'm 56, so I have money and people older than me.

[00:40:39] So let's say 50 and older have money, disposable income to donate. So you want most of your Donations your hardcore, Hey send like I, I support best friends, which is a dog rescue. It's a giant rescue place, but they had a dog town, TV show and stuff like that. So I donate to them and they send me emails with pictures of dogs and dog stories and sometimes dog t-shirts and things like that.

[00:41:11] And I have the disposable income to do it. I also donate to Kiva and which is for entrepreneurs overseas, their micro loads. So you want to take. And figure out what kind of images are going to appeal to people who are older. If you're looking for donations, not to say, to ignore younger people but that's a better target market to to.

[00:41:43] To get money, easy money, recurring revenue, whatever you wanna call it, because the disposable income is there. If you are trying to get volunteers, I don't volunteer very often. I'm old and grumpy, and I don't really like to leave the house and. So you are gonna get a lot more volunteers from the younger people.

[00:42:08] So you would direct if this is what your what the data from your past marketing campaigns has shown in your nonprofit. If it doesn't show that, then don't do this, but think about it. And if you can get volunteers from younger people, then figure out how you can use those kind of things, more hip and ed.

[00:42:33] And mine can go back to tradition and sentimental and things like that. So those are all also things you wanna put in the mix, not just what is the character you're using, cuz you could use Tigger the same way. You said to you, I said, oh, I said to use. No. You said to use 'em for the wild cats, but you could also use him to say, Hey, hop on over and help us with the the drive to end colorectal cancer.

[00:43:07] George: Yep. Fairly it's really usable. And I wanna put a finer point on what you're saying with regard to generational targeting because the characters. Are coming into public domain are 70 to a hundred years old. They are perhaps more recognizable, they're recognizable and broad, but specifically higher affinity, higher recognition for let's just be honest, a generation over 45.

[00:43:30] Tara: Absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent now I would say that my daughter, who is 17 recognized the mad hat. Because my artwork is a little cartoony but if you, yeah, your style. Yeah. Yeah. My style is a little bit more cartoony, but if you were to just put and she recognizes old poo, so then you would have to go to the really big ones.

[00:43:56] You couldn't go to like owl from poo. You would have to go to poo bear, Tigger, EOR. Piglet and then you want yeah. Piglet, but then you want to to find out like how people are using those characters in common vernacular in the zeitgeist, because are you a Tigger or are you an E or is an actual thing?

[00:44:29] I'm an ER, meaning that I tend to be a little. I just had this conversation with one of my friends today that I'm a little bit more grumpy and a little bit more doubting and she's a ticker, she's all everything's great. And everything's fine. And da. And so that's already in the Zeit case.

[00:44:50] So you could do a fun quiz on, on your social media and say, are you a ticker or are you a E or. We're gonna have a drawing for a free entry to the, whatever you have coming up for one person from whichever team wins. Yeah, I just throwing other just looking through fictional characters, there's so much more than I realized Robinhood, Sherlock Holmes, Frankenstein's monster is a, we've only just scratched the surface of kind of what's possible.

[00:45:26] George: I wonder I've been playing around with Dolly two and image creation from AI, and I realized that you can actually take one of these originals and do riffs. I think you'll get more random than you would an artist, but the ability to do variations, even on, on some of these imagery, once you have, as you acknowledge like that style of the original thing that people may recognize, you could actually move those characters around more easily than ever before.

[00:45:51] I think especially for a nonprofit on social media, if you're doing no commercial sales and you're just posting on social media. Yeah. And you wanted to take, say the drippy clock from Dolly. And put it on the front of your building and say, Hey, it's time to, it's time to donate times times running out to donate for the September big cat whatever for that.

[00:46:24] Tara: There's a general feeling that as long as you have changed, as long as more than 40%. Change, so there's a, I'm really big on the bad things that happened. So do you remember that Obama poster that was really graphic stark graphic? That was, are you saying the Shepherd's ferry one?

[00:46:51] I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. He copied that from a picture that he didn't have the commercial rights to use oh, that's. Okay. So he is in trouble for that. He's getting sued by the photographer, or he's been sued by the photographer for that because he didn't change it at all. Short of poster, short of what anybody could have done in illustrator.

[00:47:16] He made it exactly.

[00:47:18] George: He just dropped it down the middle and changed one shade, changed the other shade, hit it with an outline and he is And bam you're done well, the original photographer could prove it was his. So the thought is that as long as you change about 40%, but there's lots of really recognizable.

[00:47:35] Tara: I don't know if CLE. K L I M P T. He made all that gold arch where there's two people on you. Yeah. And there's gold. All of that is in the public domain. His stuff

[00:47:48] George: is his is the kiss, right? That's the

[00:47:50] Tara: symbolic one. He did the. Yeah. So there's tons of stuff. If you start to, to take a look and then, so you can go to, you can do a search for creative commons which is an actual place.

[00:48:08] Creative commons. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And use lots of things there because there are a lot of contemporary artists. There are a lot. Just people who love to make art or who love to take pictures who are willing to have people use their artwork with a commercial license. Cause you still have to have a commercial license.

[00:48:30] You are a commercial entity, even as a nonprofit yeah. So you're not using it for personal.

[00:48:39] George: Yeah, you have to, especially I think the bright line here I'm taking away as we wrap up is for general social media and your website use there's clearly ways you can use it, but you definitely have to double check, triple check and even consider paying for some access to it.

[00:48:54] When the commercial rights of like, all right, I'm putting it on an item to be sold and revenue will be generated albeit even for a non-profit

[00:49:02] Tara: a hundred percent. But I also think that there's ways to. Collection like to pay for a commercial license of a large collection for a low amount of money that you then know unilaterally, you have purchased the commercial right to use, right?

[00:49:19] So if you have all the poos and you have all the Allison wonderlands and you have a creative intern and you say let's all help you brainstorm things to do. They could be posting on social media or your website for the next year. With all different kinds of fun things. Yeah.

[00:49:38] George: All right. Normally I end with rapid fire questions, but I will trim it down a little bit, maybe for you and some final wrap up questions, unless there's any other finer points you wanna put on this overall conversation?

[00:49:51] Tara: No, I think this was fun. It was interesting.

[00:49:54] George: Little bit different. Alright, so what is one tech challenge you're currently facing right now?

[00:50:01] Tara: I just wrote in my newsletter about this, that my first reaction to anything is I can't do that. I'm an EOR, so I think, oh, I can't do that. I don't know how to do that. And one of my friends today, her coach told her she had to do TikTok and she said I don't, she was freaked out, just freaked out.

[00:50:27] And she said, I don't know how to do this. And so I talked to her for a little while and at the end of it, she's oh, I absolutely can do this. So I think when my first reaction is I can't do this, number one, I'll phone, a friend. And then number two, I will look on YouTube because everything you need to know about how to do anything is on.

[00:50:49] George: All right. What new website or tool have you started using in the past year? That's been a game changer for you, red bubble.

[00:50:57] Tara: Red bottles. So fun. Love it. And I have no affiliation.

[00:51:01] George: Yeah, no this ad brought to you by red bull com find your new

[00:51:07] Tara: hobby. Exactly well, but I think it's because I've used Etsy for so long and I've worked with so many entrepreneurs and it is hard.

[00:51:16] Like it's just it's hard to use. It's hard to do things and. So it's distressing to give that as a person who suggests ways to make money or to do marketing or to do things like that. It's distressing to me to recommend something that I know that they're probably gonna spend a lot of time at and may not succeed.

[00:51:40] Yeah. Where I was like whoa. All my little people will be able to cause my, my readership for marketing artfully is women who tend to be older, who may not be as technically inclined. And so to have something to recommend them. I'll give you another one though. canva.com. Oh,

[00:52:01] George: we're friends of Canada.

[00:52:02] Yeah. Okay.

[00:52:04] Tara: All right. If you're doing any kind of graphics. They like, so you could totally pull your logo into Canva and they have all kinds of elements in there. And when I said put like a little Santa Claus hat on it, they would have a Santa Claus hat. You could stick onto your to your thing, even for the top of your new, how fun would that be?

[00:52:29] The top, the header of your newsletter every month. You stick something on it and then seasonal

[00:52:35] George: iconography.

[00:52:36] Tara: Yeah. Yeah. And then people get used to looking for that, and that's a way to get them to read your newsletter, which is the point.

[00:52:45] George: All righty. What is one piece of advice your parents gave you that you either followed or did not

[00:52:50] Tara: follow.

[00:52:54] Don't open things with your teeth. I paid a lot for them and I opened things with my teeth all the time.

[00:53:04] George: That might be the best answer to that question we've ever had. And we've had many years of this that's I'm not gonna pull all the thread there. I think that was perfect. Final hardball question here.

[00:53:13] How do people find you? How do people help you?

[00:53:17] Tara: So I I have a, I marketing art fleet is helpful to marketing things. I have another website called artsy Fary life.com and I have a lot of stuff on there. That's artsy Fary art, artistic stuff, and then also a bunch for Alzheimer's. Cause my mother-in-law has Alzheimer's so caregiving for Alzheimer's.

[00:53:45] So if anybody has that, then there's a lot of good information.

[00:53:49] George: And what might somebody reach out to you personally, to do, to work

[00:53:54] Tara: on? I don't work for people anymore. don't

[00:53:58] George: I did that. I'm outta the client games. All right. It's lucky,

[00:54:01] Tara: but you know what, but you know what? I have an open offer to anybody to email me questions and I get lots of questions.

[00:54:10] It's Tara at marketing artfully. And so while I won't do it for you, a lot of times I have either a recommendation. Or I can answer a question really quick, quickly for you. That would maybe be something that would take you a long time to figure out. And I have people email you know how some people don't mind getting texts and a text will Fritz out my day.

[00:54:34] I get emails all day long from people, and I've done that for years. For 20 years. My email has been out on the internet and it's in lots of my blog posts that say, feel free to email me if you have any questions. And then if you're more artsy, I have a really cool newsletter on artsy Fary and if you're more marketing, I have a really cool newsletter on marketing artfully.

[00:54:56] George: I appreciate you answering my random cold email to you, and it all makes sense. Now. I appreciate you giving generously of your time and thank you.

[00:55:05] Tara: It was nice talking to you today.

 

 

Podcast picture credit: OpenAI DALLE2 edit of A. A. Milne Winnie the Pooh on a log being interviewed

Patagonia Goes ALL-IN on Nonprofits (news)

Patagonia Goes All-in Transferring Ownership to Nonprofit

The private B Corp company Patagonia, known for outdoor gear and its outspoken position on the environment has transferred its ownership to a nonprofit (reported by The NonProfit Times). The company, worth an estimated $3 Billion, is transferring 98% of non-voting stock to the Holdfast Collective a 501(c)(4), and 2% of the stock (all voting control) to the Patagonia Purpose Trust. 

Patagonia Founder, Yvon Chouinard has done something unprecedented for a company this size, ensuring that the $100m in profit each year will go toward philanthropic purposes instead of investors. The company still plans to donate 1% of profits toward grassroots environmental causes as well, at the discretion of the nonprofit. Further details of how money will be directed have not been revealed yet. 

Read more ➝

 

Summary

• The Ethereum Merge Is Done, Opening a New Era for the Second-Biggest Blockchain | CoinDesk
• More Than $1 Billion For Black And Underserved Communities
  The NonProfit Times
• Houston nonprofit helping migrants transported out of state by group of Republican governors | KHOU.com
• https://blackwealthdata.org/ 

 

Image from DALLE2 - Tree wearing a shirt.

 

Learn how to create AI content for your organization. 

Nonprofits Recognize Anniversary of September 11th Attacks (news)

Nonprofits Recognize Anniversary of September 11th Attacks With National Day of Service & Remembrance

This Sunday marked the 21st anniversary of the September 11th, 2001 attacks. As Americans across the country reflect on the day, nonprofit and volunteer organizations stepped up to honor victims and families, as well as to pay forward the heroic acts of bravery and charitable acts of community displayed that September. The federally-recognized September 11 National Day of Service and Remembrance brings together folks across the country to “rekindle the spirit of unity that arose in America in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.” AmeriCorps CEO Michael D. Smith, says that “from supporting students and teachers, running food drives and making emergency preparedness kits to helping with home repairs and organizing cleanups, we can help our neighbors in communities across the country,” in an effort to “ensure that what unites us outshines what tries to divide us.”
Read more ➝

 

Summary

• Crypto Going Green? Ethereum 'Merge' Begins | MediaPost 
• Federal judge rules HIV drug mandate violates religious freedom | Roll Call
• $3.2 Billion Prediction: 2022 Giving Tuesday | Whole Whale

 

• Nonprofit prepares second Safe Outdoor Space for Albuquerque's homeless | KOB 4 

Donate Now, Pay Later Explained by B Generous

Conversation with Dom Kalms, the CEO and Founder of B Generous. B Generous allows for donors to donate now, and pay later. We discuss how this technology works, how nonprofits get money upfront and donors are allowed to pay back the loan interest-free over 9 months. 

 

There are new giving opportunities that are opened up with this new technology and Dom explains them on this podcast.

 

Donors want to give to the organizations they believe in more than ever before. B Generous makes that possible. 

Today in the United States, more than 70% of donors want to give more to their favorite nonprofit, but simply can’t…leaving donors with two options: don’t donate or use a credit card with high interest rates. We think that’s a false choice, which is why we’ve created a free way for you to support your favorite nonprofit now, while maintaining the convenience of paying over time.

 

 More about Dom Kalms, CEO and Founder of B Generous: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominickalms/ 

 

 

More about how donate now, pay later differs from pledge now, pay later. 

 

GOP Senate Ads Fail & NAACP NC Loses Nonprofit Status (news)

GOP-Tied NRSC Mismanaged Fundraising In Lead-Up To Crucial Midterm Elections

The National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC), the fundraising and campaign arm of the Senate Republicans, is facing backlash from its own party as details of how it lost millions on an ill-concieved fundraising strategy emerge. The NRSC, chaired by Rick Scott, managed to take in nearly $181.5 million in donation revenue by the end of this July, only to have spent 95% of what it had already brought in, according to detailed reporting from The New York Times. The committee now has less than half of the cash-on-hand of its Democratic counterpart, having gambled it all on a flawed digital donor acquisition strategy. The report also details an ethically dubious text-to-donate scheme in which millions of texts with the question “Should Biden Resign?” -- “Reply YES To Donate” processed donations immediately without any additional information. The WinRed platform insisted the NRSC abandon the tactic. Both GOP and Democratic campaigns have received criticism for aggressive marketing in the past. The 2020 Trump campaign was forced to provide nearly $122 million in refunds.
Read more ➝

 

Summary

• NC NAACP loses tax-exempt status, financial problems with IRS | Raleigh News & Observer 
• How an SF Housing Nonprofit Blew Almost $500K on a Flawed Effort To 'Tax Jeff Bezos' Ass' | SF Standard
• Fight For Website Control 'Destroying' Nonprofit, Judge Says | Law360
• Rape map where Republicans have made abortions illegal | The Democracy Labs 

Public Service & Student Debt Forgiveness (news)

Biden Announces $10k, $20k Student Loan Forgiveness For Most Borrowers

The Biden administration announced last week that up to $10k of federal student loan debt would be forgiven for eligible borrowers, including up to $20k for Pell Grant recipients. The sweeping announcement was a controversial policy move but nonetheless a major one, with tens of millions of borrowers affected. According to The White House, 87% of the eligible borrowers currently make less than $75,000 and will disproportionately benefit historically debt-burdened communities, including Black borrowers who hold a “disproportionate amount of student loan debt.” Nonprofit and public service employees should pay close attention to shifting (and temporarily expanded leniency) in rules for the government’s Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. Rules eliminating particularly onerous requirements have been temporarily waived but require borrowers to consolidate loans by October 31 to benefit. Read more here.

 

 

Summary

• Carbon Offsets: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
• Why are so many nonprofit execs leaving their jobs? | Crain's Detroit
• What is SHADOW moderation & how is it silencing speech? | Whole Whale
• Hundreds of paddle boarders take to the lake for Austin nonprofit | CultureMap Austin